My Conversation with Dr. Jordan B. Peterson About Trauma
My conversation with Dr. Jordan B. Peterson about trauma was nothing short of remarkable. As many of you know, my life’s work focuses on psychology, faith, and guiding men toward personal and professional breakthroughs. Meeting Dr. Peterson in person this past Wednesday was a true honor. It was an extraordinary evening…
In a sold-out arena, I had a front row seat for his “We Who Wrestle with God” lecture. Cain and Abel, Noah and the ark, Carl Jung, totalitarianism, Jesus, masculinity… like a mighty river, his words ebbed and flowed through a variety of topics, meandering back and forth, then ultimately converging in deep, meaningful, and thought-provoking connections. Watching him improvise, think out loud, and work through deep and difficult topics in real time felt like watching a world-class composer, painter, or jazz musician in action. If the night had ended there, I would have been a happy man. But before long I would meet Jordan face to face.
After his standing ovation ended and the crowd dispersed, approximately 100 of us with VIP meet-and-greet badges were taken around back to a closed-off meeting area to meet Dr. Peterson. I’ve always been somewhat annoyed by the celebrity worship in our country, and as a person of faith I know only God is to be idolized. And yet, when Dr. Peterson entered the room, I confess I felt surprisingly starstruck. Before long I was able to look the man in the eye, shake his hand, and express that like him, I was a therapist. He asked how my practice was going, and I told him that it was going very well. I shared that I was also a poet, and had written him a poem inspired by his life and work. He accepted it graciously, and I was able to thank him for being the man that he is.
After the photos, we settled in for a private question and answer session. I know his time is valuable, and so I was surprised and honored that Dr. Peterson chose me as 1 of only 3 individuals to converse with.
I shared with him that as a therapist who leads a team of therapists, we try our best to speak the truth, and “carry our cross” into the suffering of others (both important themes he touched on in his lecture), that we deal with a lot of trauma, and that by doing so, there was a risk of experiencing vicarious trauma (being traumatized ourselves by hearing their stories). I asked him point blank… “What advice would you give me and my team for how to help our traumatized clients without traumatizing ourselves?”
He paused, nodded his head in acknowledgement, and then shared some hard-earned wisdom with me. Much of this I already knew, and yet, in classic Jordan Peterson fashion, he had a unique way of driving the points home, which gave them a new resonance.
First, he described the importance of not slipping into the trap of taking too much credit for a client’s success in therapy, because doing so robs them of coming to their own conclusions and healing in their own way. And it’s a package deal… taking credit for their success also means taking credit for their failures, including those that are catastrophic. “It’s their journey!,” he exclaimed. He then warned me that talented therapists should be careful, because when they inevitably find strategies that work, they can easily become over-confident in these strategies, leading to a dangerous form of pride. His words pierced my heart like arrows… I knew that he was speaking the truth.
He then went on to speak of resentment. He described how as therapists, paying attention to the resentment we feel, serves as an important way to gauge when things are out of balance with a client. The presence of resentment towards clients indicates that a therapist needs to first “grow the hell up” and recognize resentment for the destructive poison that it can be when it festers. And second, it beckons us to recognize that it is the body’s way of telling us that our boundaries are being violated… that these boundary-violations are hurting us. This holds true not only for therapeutic relationships, but for our personal relationships as well.
He then shared a personal story from his own practice, describing how he learned to take ownership for his own decisions as a therapist. He gave the specific example of how if he decided to give a client his personal cell phone number for emergencies, he then relinquished his right to blame the client later if they actually called him. He told his clients this, which counterintuitively, reassured them. If he didn’t want to be called after hours, then he had to figure out another plan. No excuses. No woes me. Not surprisingly, Dr. Peterson was advising me and my team to take personal responsibility for our choices.
To close, he came full circle. With compassion in his eyes, he validated for me that while providing good therapy will indeed be sharing in the suffering of others, we must remember to keep our hearts at arms-length to avoid falling into their pain too deeply, emphasizing that “a little compassion goes a long way man!”
What a night! Now that a few days have passed, I’m so curious about whether or not he got around to opening my gift of poetry and giving it a read. If so, I sincerely hope it was a blessing and encouragement to him. If you’d like to read the poem I wrote for Jordan, please stay tuned…
Mark Odland – MA, LMFT, MDIV
